# Augmented Wellness — Episode 002 Transcript: Ulisses Abbud

> Working readable transcript generated from the ElevenLabs transcript. Lightly formatted for review; timestamps are source transcript timestamps and may differ slightly from the final edited master.

[00:01-01:08] HOST(Demian): Hi, everyone. Uh, here another episode of Augmented Wellness. Uh, this is a podcast about how AI, health data, and human innovation are changing the way we manage our health, improve our wellness, and make every day life better. Uh, today I'm here joined with, uh, Ulysses Abud. Uh, he's a, a well-known expert on, in the cycling community here in Miami. Uh, he's a high-performance coach, a researcher, endurance athlete, and former professional cyclist who has dedicated his life to exploring the limits and possibilities of the human body. Uh, Ulysses works across physiology, meta- metabolism, adaptation, recovery, nutrition, extreme endurance, and longevity. So today, uh, I wanna break, uh, the training into different facets, uh, of your life, um, bringing, uh, uh, a few guests, uh, along the way, um, and also understand how peak performance can teach us, um, about how to live longer, how to build healthier lives, which is really the goal that we have at Betterness. So with that, uh, welcome, Ulysses. Thank you for making time, uh, for us.

[01:09-01:30] ULISSES: Thank you. Thank you, Damian, thank you so much, uh, it's really a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me and congratulating you for, you know, this amazing initia-initiative that you are ahead. Um, you are a pioneer in this, in this area, and it's been helping us a lot with, uh, this data processing and everything. Thank you.

[01:30-01:34] HOST(Demian): I appreciate it. No, and definitely, um, and definitely we're gonna be doing a lot of things together.

[01:35-01:36] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[01:36-01:44] HOST(Demian): So, um, so yeah, so to, to get started, um, you know, wanted to, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself. You're, you're from, uh, Portugal or Brazil?

[01:45-01:45] ULISSES: Uh, from Brazil.

[01:45-01:46] HOST(Demian): From Brazil, okay.

[01:46-02:09] ULISSES: So I was born, I was born in US, but um, I went back to Brazil. I was quite young. I grew up there, and then nine years ago, I came back to explore the, the gravel world, and to study, uh, physiology. Uh, and since then, I've been, like, living here and, and I don't plan to go back.

[02:10-02:16] HOST(Demian): Yeah, yeah. Well, we're gonna talk a lot about gravel. Uh, uh, you know, I still have a pending, uh, gravel ride with you.

[02:16-02:16] ULISSES: Yeah.

[02:17-02:37] HOST(Demian): Um, so, you know, let's talk about, you know, as a pro cyclist, you know, tell me a little bit about that, you know, uh, what does it, what does it mean to be a pro cyclist, uh, you know, how do... and then obviously, you know, how does your life change from the, you know, the way you were training there to the way that you, you train now?

[02:38-03:58] ULISSES: Yeah, it's a good question. Like, well, basically, starting from the end, basically, I, I'm training, like, the same amount, uh, uh, as I used to when I was a professional cyclist. Um, the intensity changed a little bit because I've been riding with, uh, clients. So volume-wise, it's pretty much the same. I feel, uh, that my fitness is pretty much the same level. Uh, but what changed was the commitment, right? What changed was, yes, when you are a professional cyclist, you, like, you are being supervised the whole time, and you have to, uh, you have to, like, give results, right? And it implicates in, like, a- an acute, firstly, an acute activation of the sympathetic system 'cause you are worried about it. You are... it's, it's your job, right? You have to perform. And now, my job is to coach another cyclist. So I, like, I ride because I love it and I have fun, and it adds, uh, like, a relaxation, uh, feeling that makes everything easy. And paradoxically, it comes with performance. It translates into performance.

[03:58-04:00] HOST(Demian): Into performance. Very interesting.

[04:00-04:00] ULISSES: Yeah.

[04:01-04:07] HOST(Demian): Yeah. Um, so what, how old were you? I mean, how many years, you know, were you a pro cyclist and...

[04:08-04:11] ULISSES: I competed professionally for 13 years.

[04:11-04:11] HOST(Demian): Oh, wow.

[04:11-04:17] ULISSES: Yeah, 13 years. Uh, I officially retired in 2023.

[04:17-04:19] HOST(Demian): And this was road, road cycling?

[04:19-04:20] ULISSES: Mostly road cycling, yeah.

[04:21-04:21] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[04:21-04:22] ULISSES: I started on mountain bikes, and then-

[04:23-04:23] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[04:23-04:38] ULISSES: ... I finished my career with gravel, uh, gravel racing. Uh, and even though I still have a, like, a professional license in US, I try to compete in, like, masters age group, you know, like, just to...

[04:39-04:57] HOST(Demian): So for those that, that are not, you know, connoisseurs of the, of the, of the racing world in, uh, uh, in gravel and... uh, uh... maybe give, give us a little bit of, uh, the background. I mean, what, uh, what does it mean to compete? I mean, uh, uh, do they have teams, their prices, what... you know, sort of, what...

[04:57-04:58] ULISSES: In gravel?

[04:58-04:58] HOST(Demian): Well...

[04:58-04:59] ULISSES: In general?

[04:59-05:01] HOST(Demian): G- g- g- give in general. Well, what's the difference?

[05:01-05:01] ULISSES: Yeah.

[05:01-05:06] HOST(Demian): You know, I'm a, I'm a s- ... you know, amateur cyclist, but I honestly never competed, really.

[05:06-05:06] ULISSES: Yeah.

[05:06-05:07] HOST(Demian): So I don't, I don't know how it works.

[05:08-06:06] ULISSES: Yeah. So cycling, it's, uh... of course, I'm biased. I think it's like the, maybe the hardest sport, uh, of all, um, road cycling, because of the volume we have to, to train, uh, the length of the races. Like Tour de France, for instance, it has 21 stages, um, one stage, one stage per day. Uh, each stage goes from, you know, like, 50 kilometers, 30 miles, all the way to 150 miles. Um, and it's everyday full gas. Yes, in road cycling, we have teams. Um, so we usually elect one leader, uh, and we work for that leader. So each one has their own role in the team. Uh, now, this team concept is expanding to gravel as well.

[06:06-06:06] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[06:06-06:36] ULISSES: So gravel is not... That, uh, fun, you know, uh, category that started a few years ago. Now, it's like, it became super professional. Uh, a lot of, like, wind tunnel studies and a lot of strategies. Uh, and this is like, end up, and it ends up being good and bad. Um, but yes, I think cycling it's, it's, uh, tough but really rewarding. Not financially, but, um, like, mentally and soul-

[06:36-06:43] HOST(Demian): To put it in perspective, because som- sometimes, you know, when you see it on TV, you, you don't realize how fast ... It's like, you don't realize how fast people in the marathon run.

[06:44-06:44] ULISSES: Yes.

[06:44-06:48] HOST(Demian): So what, what is the speed that people are, uh, both in gravel and road?

[06:48-07:04] ULISSES: So road cycling, uh, the professional peloton, uh, averages anywhere from 55 kilometers an hour to 40 kilometers an hour if you have a lot of elevation, a lot of climbs.

[07:05-07:05] HOST(Demian): Yep.

[07:05-07:24] ULISSES: Uh, which is a lot for, you know, like, uh, we're talking like- I'm talking about- I'm talking in kilometers because that's how UCI, the, the Cycling Organization, um, treats it and use. Um, so we're talking about, like, a 200 kilometers stage that the cyclist is doing four hours-

[07:25-07:25] HOST(Demian): Wow.

[07:25-07:25] ULISSES: ... yeah.

[07:27-07:37] HOST(Demian): And, uh, and what... I mean, in terms of, I mean, I- I've seen some pretty big, uh, falls in, in, in road.

[07:37-07:37] ULISSES: Yeah.

[07:38-07:40] HOST(Demian): How's that in gravel? How-

[07:40-07:59] ULISSES: Yeah. So gravel, I think gravel is a bit less, even though the surface, you know, it's uneven compared to the road. But I think especially because of the ... Like, gravel is less aggressive currently.

[07:59-08:00] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[08:00-08:10] ULISSES: It's getting there. It's less aggressive. It has, uh, less teams. Um, so and a little bit more respect in the, in the bunch.

[08:10-08:11] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[08:11-08:13] ULISSES: Uh, so there are less falls.

[08:14-08:14] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[08:14-08:18] ULISSES: But when it happens, it's, it's, it's nasty. It's nasty.

[08:18-08:20] HOST(Demian): Because of the, if you fall in the gravel.

[08:20-08:29] ULISSES: Yeah. If on the gravel and like, on top of rocks and, yeah, and even, and you have, you know, like, a lot of bacteria. Not that you don't have on pavement, but it's-

[08:29-08:29] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[08:29-08:30] ULISSES: ... it's different.

[08:30-08:34] HOST(Demian): Yeah. And s- and so, why did you fall in love with gravel or-

[08:35-09:15] ULISSES: Yeah, like, it's a good question, you know. I think gravel is, uh, a mix in, a mix between, uh, the mountain bike and the road. Uh, you are, like first gravel, you are in nature, right? You are like out there and you don't have traffic lights. You don't have cars, uh, cars honking. You don't have to look back, you know, for cars or something coming fast from behind. Um, and it's, I- I think it's- it takes you anywhere, you know. Like, on- if you are riding a road bike, you have to ride on, on road-

[09:16-09:16] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[09:16-09:23] ULISSES: ... right, on, on paved road. On gravel, you can basically go anywhere. So that's what called my, my attention.

[09:23-09:28] HOST(Demian): Drip. Yeah. Well, I've seen your, you know, your, your Instagrams with people carrying the bike-

[09:28-09:29] ULISSES: Yeah.

[09:29-09:30] HOST(Demian): ... crossing, you know-

[09:30-09:30] ULISSES: Yeah.

[09:30-09:38] HOST(Demian): ... streams and things like that. Um, so on, on, on those 13 years, what, what did you learn about the body or, you know, about your body? I mean, what, uh-

[09:40-10:21] ULISSES: Yeah. Like, I learned a lot and I've been learning since then, you know. Like, um, it's that, the cliché quote that the more we learn, the more we, we realize that we don't know anything about it. Uh, but the body is like a perfect, um, mechanism, right? And throughout all the years competing, I could feel like in practice, um, what later on I came to understand the theory behind, and start to, like, link the dots, and which, which gave me a better understanding about how the body works.

[10:21-10:25] HOST(Demian): Like, like, sp- like what? Like, give me some examples.

[10:25-11:39] ULISSES: Um, for instance, I was like, there was a time of my career that I was really struggling with, uh, like, trying to lose weight because, you know, it's like, um, when you compare a motorcycle with a car. A motorcycle is a lot faster because- not because it has le- uh, more power, but because it has a lot less weight. So it's the watts per kilo that we see in cycling. So I was trying to lower my weight, right, um, to go faster on the climbs and then we are already training 25, 30 hours per week. Um, we are like dieting, uh, thinking that, "Okay, like, I'm, I'm doing good for my body because I'll be stronger." But no, it goes the other way around. Then you understand that if you start to diet a lot, your body, that is a perfect mechanism, will slow down your metabolism because it doesn't know that, "Oh, okay, he's going for a ride." No, it understands, "Okay, he's like, he's lacking, um, food in, in, in his environment so it's a survival situation. Let me lower the metabolism to, like, uh, to survive."

[11:39-11:39] HOST(Demian): Correct.

[11:39-11:48] ULISSES: Right? And then you start to even die- dieting to gain weight and you say that, "How come? I'm dieting. How am I, how, um, am I gaining weight?"

[11:49-11:49] HOST(Demian): Correct.

[11:49-11:51] ULISSES: Uh, yeah, this is one of the, the features.

[11:51-11:52] HOST(Demian): Correct.

[11:52-11:52] ULISSES: One of the-

[11:52-12:06] HOST(Demian): No, no, the, uh, yeah, and, and, and it's incredible that, you know, we sort of already know that, uh, now, today, y- but it's hard to, to, uh, to implement it in, in, in your day-to-day.

[12:07-12:07] ULISSES: It is.

[12:07-12:13] HOST(Demian): So is, is that where you sort of got interested in the physiology and biological sciences and, and things like that?

[12:13-12:42] ULISSES: Exactly, exactly. Uh, I'm an engineer by training, uh, so I always liked to work with numbers and, and charts, graphics, um- And with-- like, I had this, uh, numbers background, but I would like to understand better what I was feeling and-and living through, and that's why I went to, uh, like, to physiology school to study physiology. Uh-

[12:42-12:43] HOST(Demian): Where'd you go?

[12:44-12:45] ULISSES: Uh, I-- in-- to Harvard.

[12:45-12:46] HOST(Demian): Oh, to Harvard, okay.

[12:46-12:46] ULISSES: Yeah, to Harvard. Uh-

[12:46-12:47] HOST(Demian): Nice.

[12:47-13:10] ULISSES: Yeah. And, uh... Wow, it was amazing, because firstly, I-I-I was looking for, like, a ph- a sports physiology, uh, course, but then I ended up doing physiology, like pure physiology. And I had a lot of, um, difficulties in the beginning because I was lacking the base, you know, of biology. But yeah, but nothing that-

[13:10-13:16] HOST(Demian): So explain a little bit physiology. Like, what is... You know, what exactly is that degree, you know, entail?

[13:16-14:23] ULISSES: Yeah, that's a good question, you know. Um, I think that physiology is the science that rules the body in general, like everything, it's physiology, right? So everything that happens inside your body, it's explained or should be explained by-by your physiology. Um, and that said, you... Like, if you... Um, like, you're breathing or eating, um, which seems something really obvious and like every- like you said, everybody, you know, we do-we do it every second. Uh, once you start to go deep into the physiology, you start to find more things related to it. And when you find things related to it, you can act to make it, um, better or worse, if even like a small and simple and, like, normal thing as breathing, you can make your breathing a lot better by understanding the physiology.

[14:24-14:37] HOST(Demian): Right. Yeah, actually talking about breathing, I recently saw a podcast with Huberman and-and Rick Rubin, I think, and they were- they did a coherence breathing exercise, the five, five, five, five, five-

[14:37-14:37] ULISSES: Yeah.

[14:39-14:43] HOST(Demian): Um, and, you know, because it could increase your HRV-

[14:43-14:43] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[14:44-14:53] HOST(Demian): ... which is something I-I really need to-to work on. And it's been incredible. I actually, you know, you could-you could see the impact of just simple breathing-

[14:53-14:53] ULISSES: It's the same.

[14:53-14:55] HOST(Demian): ... it could have on-on your HRV and balance.

[14:55-15:06] ULISSES: Yeah, basically, just by, like, extending your exhaling, you- if you do it, like, a couple of times a day consistently, you improve your- you increase your HRV.

[15:07-15:08] HOST(Demian): Exactly.

[15:08-15:08] ULISSES: Yeah.

[15:08-15:18] HOST(Demian): So let's talk about, you know, uh, the body and, you know, one of your focus areas is-is executives, right? Like high-performance executives-

[15:18-15:18] ULISSES: Yeah.

[15:19-16:00] HOST(Demian): ... entrepreneurs, uh, obviously, and that is a world that-that, uh, you know, us in technology sort of live in, and, um, and now with all these wearables and all that, you know, there's all these data going on. So, um, so what... You know, how do you see... You know, how do you see your work with that type of individual that has, you know, little time and, you know. How, you know, w-where do you start? Uh, and usually what type of executives, you know, or-or bus- individuals are there? I mean, how-how do you sort of see them in terms of, you know... Do they have no time or they have a lot of time but they don't know what to do?

[16:01-16:51] ULISSES: Yeah, that's a great question. So, they... It's-it's really similar. So their mind, uh, works pretty much as a, like a professional athlete works, right? Uh, 'cause they are, f- like, driven by performance. Um, it's not like they're not professional athletes, but they are, like, very high performance executives, uh, like you said. So they live like a- like a top athlete, right? Or they-they think they live as a- as a top athlete, but they lack the most important thing in general, like they la- um, th- they lack the most important part of the whole, uh, improvement process, that is recovery.

[16:52-16:52] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[16:52-17:32] ULISSES: But we'll get into that, uh, later. Um, I really like to work with, um, executives just because of their mindset, uh, and I can make a very clear correlation with the other- the other professional cyclists that I work with. Um, and basically, they have very little time because they're super busy, right? Um, and they try to optimize their time for everything, but again, they end up lacking recovery.

[17:33-17:35] HOST(Demian): Yeah. So let's talk- let's talk about recovery.

[17:35-17:35] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[17:35-17:45] HOST(Demian): So I have here a slide. Uh, Shive, if we could put it up. Um, this is, I think, a presentation that I saw you did, uh, uh, you know, a couple months ago-

[17:45-17:46] ULISSES: Yeah.

[17:46-17:53] HOST(Demian): ... on longevity, um, which was really interesting. Uh, maybe we have some time, we could talk a little bit about that.

[17:53-17:53] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[17:54-18:36] HOST(Demian): Um, yeah, but talk about recovery. I mean, me, myself, it's-it's- it's so hard. I mean, uh, especially in today's sort of world where we're sort of coding and, you know, it's- it's the possibilities are endless and, you know, you almost have, you know... Uh, I mean, at least aft- I mean, at least myself from the technology world, last year, it seems that, you know, we at least had breaks where, you know, we can sort of disconnect. But today, with the possibilities of AI and really knowing that any idea you have, you could sort of- ...you know, start working on it right now and work at it 24/7-

[18:36-18:36] ULISSES: Yeah.

[18:37-18:47] HOST(Demian): ...uh, it's, it's hard. I mean, I'm having my worst sleep ever, um, and obviously, uh, how do you see that? And h-have you seen also, yourself that with some executives gone, now everybody's coding.

[18:48-18:48] ULISSES: Yeah.

[18:48-18:50] HOST(Demian): Um, t- you know, so, go a-

[18:50-19:05] ULISSES: Yeah. So you were a good example, you know. You were like a high performance executive and you were the f- you know, one of the m- like most complicated cases, just because your work is purely related to the brain, right?

[19:05-19:05] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[19:06-20:54] ULISSES: Um, first let's tap into like the, briefly into the sympathetic system and then parasympathetic system concept that explains everything, uh, right. They like, they are the, one o- one of the base of the whole physiology. So we have these two systems, uh, in the bo... that regulates everything in our body, um. The sympathetic system, it's the fight or flight, um, so it means adrenaline. It means like you are under a threat and you have to act. So adrenaline kicks in and everything, your pupils, they, they re- retract, uh, things like that. And the parasympathetic system is the antagonic system, so it's the rest, digest, sleep, uh, and what happens is when you compare like, um, a professional athlete with a top executive like you, you... The professional athlete, uh, can, uh, he will or she will generate, um, like an acute stress and that means acute activation of the sympathetic system. But then they will relax and it's when recovery starts. So recovery starts when you can activate your par- parasympathetic system because it will shut down your sympathetic system and promov- start promoting relaxation and all the systems in your body will shift towards recovery, right? Um, and a top executive, uh, like you, you will wake up in the morning, you go to your, to your office and you start to code and that thing is like, it's a, it's a huge-

[20:54-20:54] HOST(Demian): Oh, man.

[20:55-20:55] ULISSES: ... like mental-

[20:55-20:56] HOST(Demian): I wake up and I start coding, it's-

[20:56-21:18] ULISSES: ... mental, like brain work, um, and you're gonna have lunch thinking about your code, and then you go back to the office, and then, like, let's say you find time to exercise and then you, you will add, uh, an-another acute, uh, stress on top of everything, and then you go back to the office so you never shut down.

[21:18-21:19] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[21:19-22:10] ULISSES: Your sympathetic system is chronically on and it causes inflammation. It w- one of the, th- the main things that can cause, uh, can start and trigger inflammation and, of course, inflammation leads to, um, not to longevity. To the, to the o- other way, right? Um, so yeah, that's why recovery should be, uh, as like a, I used to say, it's... Recovery, it's not the reward. It's just the, the, like an adaptation mechanism. You have to plan your recovery as you plan anything else, um, on your day. And of course, you start with, um, okay, like having a time to pro- proper recover, and in the beginning, you'll be like, "Okay," you know, like feeling, uh, "Okay, I'm here recovering, but, you know, I have things to do."

[22:10-22:19] HOST(Demian): So yeah. So, so walk me over what, what, what does recovery mean for you? I mean, so, what, what is the must do or...

[22:19-22:43] ULISSES: Yeah. That's a good question. Recovery is like, it's essentially when you can relax or shut down your mind, um, even though it means you are riding your bike. If you're riding your bike, but you can disconnect from your world, uh, from your job for one hour or a couple of hours, you are recovering.

[22:44-22:44] HOST(Demian): Okay. So-

[22:44-22:45] ULISSES: Much more than-

[22:45-22:50] HOST(Demian): So recovery, you, you almost assign it to the mind rather than the body or?

[22:50-22:50] ULISSES: Yes.

[22:51-22:51] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[22:51-23:08] ULISSES: Yes, because it starts there, right? It starts in the mind. Um, you can have, uh, you can perform over a tired body way more than you can perform over a tired mind e- with a, like a, a rested body with rested muscle.

[23:09-23:14] HOST(Demian): So, so, yeah, so let's go into sort of how you, how we measure it, right?

[23:14-23:14] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[23:14-23:27] HOST(Demian): Myself, actually, um, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm in, in, in, in one of the most sort of stressful moments of, of, I ever had, you know, because-

[23:27-23:27] ULISSES: Yeah.

[23:27-23:35] HOST(Demian): ... you know, this sort of Vibe Coding world that wasn't really a part of my, my, my life because I, I, I always ran tech companies-

[23:35-23:35] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[23:35-23:45] HOST(Demian): ... but I never coded. Now I'm coding and, and, you know, and, and I'm feeling very tired, uh, because I'm not, I'm not sleeping well, you know, again-

[23:45-23:45] ULISSES: Yeah.

[23:45-23:51] HOST(Demian): ... as soon as my sort of brain wakes up... Today, I woke up at four, 3:40 in the morning.

[23:51-23:51] ULISSES: Yeah.

[23:51-24:00] HOST(Demian): 4:00 in the morning, um, but interesting, my HSR, HS... HSCRP, which is inflammation, you know, a good marker for inflammation-

[24:00-24:00] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[24:00-24:01] HOST(Demian): ... is very low, um.

[24:01-24:01] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[24:02-24:09] HOST(Demian): It could be because I'm in Z-Bound, which is, uh, you know, uh, something that really helps with that. But, uh, my body's feeling not well.

[24:09-24:10] ULISSES: Yeah.

[24:10-24:22] HOST(Demian): What, w- how do you measure? So how do you measure... Obviously, you know, biomarkers like HSCRP could be a good indicator, which other ones? And HRV, what el- what else, you know... Uh, h- my HRV is definitely showing-

[24:23-24:23] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[24:23-24:25] HOST(Demian): ... showing that my, my-

[24:25-24:25] ULISSES: Yeah.

[24:25-24:27] HOST(Demian): ... you know, my recovery's not well.

[24:27-25:07] ULISSES: Yeah. So probably, like, going back again to our body's perfect, right? So the- Inflammation, uh, biomarkers will be the last ones who go up. And usually when they- you see them high, it's- you know, it's may- it's too late, because you are- you are in like an, uh, overtraining state or a- like a v- very chronic, uh, sympathetic state, uh, a- activation of the sympathetic state, um, and it's really hard to go back. It's- of course it's possible, but it's hard. Um, but the first signs are, like, high cortisol-

[25:07-25:07] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[25:08-25:37] ULISSES: Um, that is the st- stress hormone. And the HRV trending down. Of course, the HRV goes up and down, up and down. But then when you start to analyze the- how it trends in, like, a month, you can get a lot. Okay, it's been a month that it's trending down. So I've been, like, stressed more and more and more. And the next thing is, your resting heart rate starts to go up.

[25:37-25:37] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[25:38-25:49] ULISSES: Like, it doesn't need to occur necessarily, but it's usually what happens, especially with athletes, um, in, like, getting towards a state of overtraining.

[25:50-25:55] HOST(Demian): Yeah, so, um, um, and obviously, you know, that ties to longevity.

[25:56-25:56] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[25:56-26:11] HOST(Demian): And, uh, and, you know, so how do you, you know, how do you reconcile that? I mean, how do you... I mean, longevity usually for- for people, uh, I have this sign in my- in- in- you know, in my desk which has the- the weeks-

[26:12-26:12] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[26:12-26:13] HOST(Demian): ... left in your life, um-

[26:13-26:13] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[26:14-26:23] HOST(Demian): ... that I- I asked my daughter to give me a couple years. And people are like, "Why do you want that?" Because that puts in perspective, right? I mean, we have a finite, you know, number of days in this world.

[26:23-26:23] ULISSES: Yeah.

[26:23-26:34] HOST(Demian): Um, and- and sometimes that realization, you know, makes you a little bit, uh... Um, how- how do you, you know, how do you f- reconcile those things, you know?

[26:34-28:35] ULISSES: Yeah. Um, so, I used to say, like, I- I think the health span concept over life span. Because when someone asks, "Oh, like, who wants to live up to..." Like, if you ask in a room, "Who wants to live up to 150 years?" Um, a few will raise their hand, because they- they remember someone that is, like, very ill, you know, like 100 years, 105 years, but really ill, not lucid. And then, if you change your question and say, uh, "How many of you want to get to 150 years, like, feeling the same way as you feel, like, now?" Then every- everyone will raise their hands, right? Um, so longevity, it's- I say that it's- it's dying young, uh, as late as possible, right? Uh, and to get there, you have to go back to that concept of recovery, right? 'Cause if you- if you are activating your sympathetic system over and over again, living in a chronic state, uh, you will not get that long. You will not get that- that long, because you are, like, wearing out your whole body, your whole system, especially your mind. So, the key for longevity, first is recovery. It starts with recovery. Um, and then, now, how I start with recovery? And I think first is to force yourself to do some breaks. And then, like I said, in the beginning, you'll be, like, doing nothing, but your mind will not be there. But with time, and consistently, you'll be able to, through breathing, you know, meditation techniques, to calm your mind down and to progressively activate your parasympathetic system.

[28:35-28:35] HOST(Demian): Yep.

[28:35-28:37] ULISSES: That's what will lead to longevity.

[28:38-28:47] HOST(Demian): No, because it's very interesting. I- I wanna show you something here. So, we have this slide here, Shea, that, uh, talks about longevity and what happens. Um, so it says, "Move daily," right?

[28:48-28:48] ULISSES: Yeah.

[28:48-29:18] HOST(Demian): "Eat slowly, protect sleep, disconnect, breathe, uh, stress with intention, and recovery." So this is really interesting. I wanna show you something. Um, so you know in- in- in Beti, beti.bod is our app, uh, one of the- the interesting, really, parts of the app is, um, you know, where you say your goal. Uh, they- you know, different goals. The a- the- the agents, Beti, the main agent, the orchestrator agent, uh, is- has what's called HeartBeats.

[29:18-29:19] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[29:19-29:49] HOST(Demian): You know, and it wakes up, uh, I think it's every hour, and looks at everything, and then suggests goals for you. And then, those goals, when you select them to become active, uh, all the agents are- are constantly watching it. So I'm gonna- I'm gonna show you here, um, you know, a little bit. If you, you know, remember those- those that we have there, uh, when you go to- in the- in the area called Focus, um, which is really the result, um, every morning at 7:30 in the morning, uh, the agents all get together-

[29:50-29:50] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[29:50-29:57] HOST(Demian): ... and they basically work out my plan for today. And- and- and as I saw your slide, and I saw what it recommends for me, it's like such a-

[29:58-29:58] ULISSES: Wow.

[29:58-30:00] HOST(Demian): ... you know, such a relationship, you know. Uh...

[30:00-30:01] ULISSES: Yeah.

[30:01-30:02] HOST(Demian): 5:00 PM, brain drop.

[30:02-30:03] ULISSES: Recovery, yeah.

[30:03-30:12] HOST(Demian): Uh, breakfast, Greek yogurt, 22 grams of, uh, protein. Uh, and here it- it tells me, because I have a, you know, a- a weight, uh, and my Zebbound and all that.

[30:12-30:12] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[30:13-30:14] HOST(Demian): Morning walk, you know?

[30:14-30:15] ULISSES: Yeah.

[30:15-30:16] HOST(Demian): Uh, shaded zone one.

[30:17-30:18] ULISSES: Stress with intention.

[30:18-30:22] HOST(Demian): Yeah. Uh, it- you know, it's telling me I only had 231 steps yesterday.

[30:22-30:22] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[30:22-30:26] HOST(Demian): So, um, lunch, then cold plunge.

[30:26-30:26] ULISSES: Yeah.

[30:27-30:30] HOST(Demian): Uh, and skip the sauna. Uh, my HRV is really low.

[30:30-30:31] ULISSES: Wow.

[30:31-30:49] HOST(Demian): Yeah. Um, uh, mind, uh- He says, oh, well, this is mine. Uh, and then he would tell me, this morning told me, "Delay the coffee until nine in the morning." Uh- So, you know, very interesting, you know, how the agents sort of, uh... And we're going to talk to some of the agents later.

[30:49-30:50] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[30:50-30:57] HOST(Demian): Um, but, you know, it's, it's interesting that, um... I mean, these are known facts that we sort of all know. I think, you know? We have this-

[30:57-30:57] ULISSES: Yeah.

[30:57-31:16] HOST(Demian): ... system. But it's really hard to, to, to make 'em actionable. So what, what recommendations do you have? I mean, where do you start, uh, you know, a ci- you know, I'm, I'm sure we have a lot of people that are here, you know, eh, maybe in the same boat that I am. It's like, uh, "I, I just need to figure out how."

[31:16-31:40] ULISSES: Yeah. I think the main step is consistency, right? Consistency, like you are doing here. You have a routine to follow. And even though, like, you know, every other day you have to skip, because there is something like a commitment, more like, more, something more important, you have a routine. I think that's what will put you in the rails, right?

[31:41-31:41] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[31:41-31:54] ULISSES: Uh, and a routine means, like, a time to work, a time to recover, a time to eat. Um, like lunchtime, it's a lunchtime, you know? You're not, like, going over lunch to go to a meeting and consistently, right?

[31:55-31:55] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[31:55-31:56] ULISSES: So, I think first step is consistency.

[31:56-32:24] HOST(Demian): Well, now, again, uh, you know, what's happening, again, not to, you know, sort of make about me, but it's, it's sort of... I mean, they even have this term called vampire, uh, vampires or coding vampires, you know, because, um... And, you know, it's, it's a real thing. It's a real thing, because I mean, sort of you, you know, talk, you know, fight or flight response. I mean, we're now being given sort of this, um, this ability to, to tap into something that, you know, we see valuable-

[32:25-32:25] ULISSES: Yeah.

[32:25-32:38] HOST(Demian): ... you know, all the time, and it's hard to shut it down. So, I think, I think, you know, I think this year, uh, especially in the entrepreneurial world, in tech world, um, teaching people how to really do this, um, is gonna be really important.

[32:38-33:26] ULISSES: Yeah, especially because, of course, like, um, executives, they, they lack time, right? They are always busy, so they, they, they try to get, like, shortcuts to longevity. And you go online and you see, like, thousands of new, um, you know, like, promises and new supplements that will bring longevity. Uh, but it's, it's really, like, it's not well-known, right? Um, like anything, we call it peptides, and, uh, it's, it's not like there... I, I don't believe that there is one single thing that will help you. It's just like the whole thing you've been doing for years, right?

[33:26-33:26] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[33:26-33:30] ULISSES: That's what will guide you through longevity or not.

[33:30-33:40] HOST(Demian): Yeah, no, the, the, the, the, the, the part that is, you know, that... so, um, you know, hard to really understand is that it's so simple-

[33:40-33:40] ULISSES: Yeah.

[33:40-33:48] HOST(Demian): ... what we have to do. That sometimes because it's so simple, so basic, uh, you don't... You know, in this world that we live in that we think everybody has, everything has to be-

[33:48-33:49] ULISSES: Yes.

[33:49-33:51] HOST(Demian): ... technology or has to be something, it's like-

[33:51-33:51] ULISSES: Yeah.

[33:51-33:52] HOST(Demian): ... no. Eat well, move-

[33:52-33:53] ULISSES: Yeah, breathe.

[33:53-33:56] HOST(Demian): ... recover, breathe, sleep, you know, love-

[33:56-33:56] ULISSES: Yeah.

[33:56-33:57] HOST(Demian): ... and that's it, you know?

[33:57-33:57] ULISSES: Yeah.

[33:57-34:03] HOST(Demian): You will have... You know, you will have a good life. So, let's, let's, uh, let's switch gears a little bit into, um-

[34:03-34:03] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[34:03-34:08] HOST(Demian): You just came from, uh, your, your, uh, Girona trip. Uh-

[34:08-34:09] ULISSES: Tri- yeah, training camp.

[34:10-34:16] HOST(Demian): ... t- you know, t- t- talk a little about, about that, you know? Because that, that's a good, you know, you know, as an executive, it's a good way to disconnect-

[34:16-34:17] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[34:17-34:18] HOST(Demian): ... reconnect with yourself.

[34:18-34:18] ULISSES: Yeah.

[34:18-34:21] HOST(Demian): Um, so, talk, talk, talk about that trip. I mean, how-

[34:21-34:21] ULISSES: Yeah.

[34:21-34:27] HOST(Demian): ... how do you set it up, and what have you seen, uh, as results for your clients?

[34:27-35:11] ULISSES: Yeah, cool. Um, so I, I try to put together two training camps a year. And the training camp is not just taking people to ride bikes overseas. Um, I try to create an immersion, right, um, and to tap into many of the subjects we are discussing here today. So, they stress with intention with the rides, right? They have, like... We do hard rides. Uh, of course, there is a progression. Use... It's usually five days. Uh, first and last day, shorter rides, like a, a shake-out ride, and then a coffee ride to wrap up, but then we have three rides, three days riding in the middle, like long rides with climbs and everything.

[35:12-35:15] HOST(Demian): So, what, uh, what is a long... Like, just so people maybe-

[35:15-35:22] ULISSES: Yeah, um, like, I would say from 100... from 90 to 140 kilometers.

[35:22-35:22] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[35:22-35:57] ULISSES: Uh, with elevation. It depends on the elevation, you know, the length of, the length of the ride. But once we come back to the hotel, then we have lunch. So, we have, always have, like, lunch, uh, at, um, the same time slot, and then they go to the recovery process. So, they have cold plunge, sauna, red light therapy, massage. Uh, and of course, if they wanna take a nap, they have time for that. Uh, we encourage them to, like... The same effort that they put in training, they put in recovering.

[35:57-35:57] HOST(Demian): Wow.

[35:57-36:26] ULISSES: Uh, and then we all get together for dinner. And something that I've changed in the last years that I found really interesting is that I switched from, uh, hosting the camp in a, like, regular hotel to a house hotel. Uh, and it's a big house where we have the common areas and the rooms. Why? Because it, like-

[36:27-36:27] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[36:27-36:31] ULISSES: ... creates a lot, the community, um, that, that community environment.

[36:31-36:32] HOST(Demian): Mm-hmm.

[36:32-36:57] ULISSES: So, in a hotel, they go to their rooms and they isolate themselves, and then we just meet for, like, ride, lunch or dinner. And in the house, we go, you know, you go to the living room, there's people there and, um, you go to the kitchen, you go make yourself a coffee and you bump into the other riders, so it creates community, and this is another aspect really linked to longevity, right?

[36:57-36:57] HOST(Demian): Yeah.

[36:57-37:01] ULISSES: Is the feeling of, like, belonging to a certain, uh, community.

[37:02-37:08] HOST(Demian): Yeah. Yeah, no, uh, the- the recent, well, recent, the study of Harvard, uh, you know-

[37:08-37:08] ULISSES: Mm-hmm.

[37:08-37:10] HOST(Demian): ... on happiness I think it was, right? That, uh-

[37:11-37:11] ULISSES: Yeah. Yeah.

[37:11-37:13] HOST(Demian): ... that is, you know, the relationships is-

[37:13-37:13] ULISSES: The Blue Zones.

[37:13-37:22] HOST(Demian): ... is all that- that- that matter. So, um, um, so wh- when is your next one? Uh, so, you know, we have obviously here-

[37:22-37:25] ULISSES: Next one, uh, September 16th to 20th in Girona.

[37:26-37:26] HOST(Demian): In Girona?

[37:26-37:28] ULISSES: Yeah. The gravel camp.

[37:28-37:32] HOST(Demian): Okay. And- and similar structure?

[37:32-37:33] ULISSES: Yes. Similar-

[37:33-37:34] HOST(Demian): Yeah?

[37:34-37:37] ULISSES: Yeah, they all follow the same structure, but this one will be on gravel setup.

[37:38-37:38] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[37:38-37:42] ULISSES: Will be my- my- my first gravel training camp in Girona.

[37:42-37:45] HOST(Demian): And why- why Girona for those that don't know?

[37:45-37:50] ULISSES: Yeah, like, Girona is a, you know, it's a- it's a- it's a magical place. It's a cycling hub.

[37:50-37:50] HOST(Demian): Okay.

[37:50-38:17] ULISSES: So everything is... Uh, first, it's a cute town, um, a medieval town. Beautiful. It- it was, uh, one of the place- place they use to film Game of Thrones, uh, so it has a lot of history in there. Plus it's a cycling hub, so all coffee shops, uh, cycling, uh, stores, um, bike shops, they are all there.

[38:17-38:17] HOST(Demian): Wow.

[38:17-38:19] ULISSES: And on top of that, you have, like, routes.

[38:19-38:20] HOST(Demian): Well, I'm in... I told you I'm in on that one.

[38:21-38:21] ULISSES: Yeah.

[38:21-38:37] HOST(Demian): So, you know, and I'm- might not be able to use, uh... Well, I'm- I have to, you know, so I know, you know, I have an Allied, uh, you know, Hybrid, uh, and, uh, and gravel. Yeah, I- I really enjoy gravel. I- even though I've probably done 5% gravel, uh, it's- i- it is a different experience.

[38:37-38:37] ULISSES: Yeah.

[38:37-38:39] HOST(Demian): So definitely this year I want to- I want to-

[38:39-38:39] ULISSES: Absolutely.

[38:39-38:40] HOST(Demian): ... gift it to myself.

[38:40-38:41] ULISSES: Yeah.

[38:41-38:59] HOST(Demian): Let's talk about the- the recovery, uh, protocol. So, you know, so in my house I have sauna, I have cold plunge, I've been slacking, you know, like Javi's saying. I need to really go... But- but what- what- what is your protocol there? I mean, how do you... You know, you have the contrast, I mean, what- what do you recommend? Um.

[39:00-39:56] ULISSES: Uh, so, like, the recovery- the recovery, uh, steps, um, it's- it's very individual, right? In- each one has their own preferences. Uh, what I really encourage is that, like, that they have a recovery routine, and it can be some- like, for certain people, it's like reading a book, so they just chill and read a book. Others prefer the cold plunge. Others prefer sauna because they don't like cold plunge, um, or recovery boots, you know, or stretching or yoga. Others will suffer with yoga, will add stress, uh, because they have to work in isometry. So it's- it's very individual, uh, but again, like, you must focus on something that makes you- your mind relax.

[39:57-39:59] HOST(Demian): Yep. So how do you know your mind is relaxed?

[40:00-40:19] ULISSES: That's a good question. That's a good question. Um, you feel like when you're not... You catch yourself not thinking about work, your mind is relaxed. Of course, that moment you might go back to work. "Oh, okay." But that's when you- you realize like-

[40:19-40:23] HOST(Demian): Any- any exercises or any- any, you know, techniques?

[40:23-41:02] ULISSES: For sure the s- like, simplest one, the simplest one is breathing. Um, like, that simple, uh, inhaling, exhaling, extending the exhaling, like, uh, you can start with, um, four, two, six, two. It means four seconds inhaling, two seconds holding, six seconds exhaling, two seconds holding, and you repeat, like, five, six times. It's enough to s- like, start activating your parathympath- your parasympathetic system.

[41:04-41:10] HOST(Demian): Yeah. Uh, I'm- I'm trying to hear, uh, so, you know, I think we're- we're- we're getting, you know, I wanna- I wanna have some fun, uh-

[41:10-41:10] ULISSES: Yeah.

[41:11-41:25] HOST(Demian): ... here, um, you know, let me- let me see, um, there's here an agent, uh, called the- the breath worker, um, that is actually training a lot of the classical techniques. So let- let- let's see if we could call him up. Um-

[41:25-41:25] ULISSES: Nice.

[41:25-41:30] HOST(Demian): Shayana, we're gonna call here, and I- I want to talk abo- what's the breath- the breath work you said? Four...

[41:30-41:33] ULISSES: The, uh, four, two, six, two.

[41:33-41:34] HOST(Demian): Okay, let me- let me see. Let me see if, uh-

[41:34-41:35] ULISSES: Or the box breathing.

[41:36-41:36] HOST(Demian): The box breathing.

[41:36-41:38] ULISSES: It's four, four, four, four.

[41:39-41:41] GUEST: Hey, Damien. What feels most useful right now?

[41:42-41:58] HOST(Demian): So we're talking out here about the box breathing, uh, technique here. I'm with Ulisses. Uh, he's a- he's a- a executive coach, uh, in, you know, cycling and many other, uh, longevity aspects, um, so meet him and tell me a little bit about the box breathing.

[42:02-42:42] GUEST: Hey, Ulisses. Great to meet you. Box breathing is a four count equal ratio technique. Inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four, repeat. That balances your nervous system by giving equal weight to activation and calm. It's popular with athletes, executives, and military folks because it sharpens focus and steadies heart rate variability without tipping you into either drowsy... ... or wired. Want to try a round together?

[42:43-42:43] HOST(Demian): Huh.

[42:43-42:47] GUEST: How would you like me to walk through when and how to use it first?

[42:47-42:50] HOST(Demian): How's my HRV? I know it's not great.

[42:56-43:34] GUEST: Your HRV is running low. Today it's sitting around 12 milliseconds and earlier this week, it dipped to eight. That tells me your nervous system is under some strain, either from training load, stress or poor sleep recovery. Box breathing is a solid choice here because it can gently lift HRV without demanding anything from your body. Equal inhale, hold exhale, hold calms the system and improves coherence. Want to run through a few rounds now?

[43:36-43:46] HOST(Demian): Which one? Ah, what about the, ah, the box breathing, okay, but what about the other one, the four-two-six-two? Four-two-six-two, do you know about that one?

[43:51-44:25] GUEST: I don't have a technique called four-two-six-two in the classical pranayama of modern breathwork toolkit I teach. You might be thinking of four-seven-eight breathing. Inhale for four, hold for seven, exhale for eight, which is a strong parasympathetic tool for sleep and calm, or maybe a custom ratio someone showed you. Can you tell me more about where you heard four-two-six-two, or what it's supposed to do?

[44:26-44:30] HOST(Demian): Well, w- we're good now, but thank you so much, you rock. Yeah, so-

[44:30-44:31] ULISSES: That's awesome.

[44:31-44:32] HOST(Demian): You know, it's a-

[44:32-44:32] ULISSES: Yeah.

[44:32-44:37] HOST(Demian): ... little... I, I created this one, ah, for myself, ah, and, um-

[44:37-44:37] ULISSES: Yeah.

[44:37-44:40] HOST(Demian): It's available in betty.bod, uh, anybody could go and-

[44:40-44:41] ULISSES: That's really cool.

[44:41-44:43] HOST(Demian): ... hear them. Um, the voice is funny.

[44:43-44:44] ULISSES: Yeah.

[44:44-44:46] HOST(Demian): You know, it's, ah, ah, I actually put an ElevenLabs-

[44:46-44:47] ULISSES: Like a guru voice, right?

[44:47-45:24] HOST(Demian): Yeah, like a guru voice, um, but, ah, yeah, yeah, we, we have some fun with that. Um, but, yeah, so, you know, as, as we sort of wrap up here, um, you know, what else, ah, you know, what else can we leave, you know, our audience with, um, you know, again, I think, ah, you know, we, we really deal a lot with people in the tech community, ah, it's, it's a very interesting time in the world, ah, it almost feels that you have to be on 24/7, ah, at least I feel like that way, and, ah, even today, I will say today I just need to stop, ah, I'm just exhausted, um-

[45:24-45:25] ULISSES: Yeah.

[45:25-45:31] HOST(Demian): So, ah, what, what do you recommend? I mean, obviously going to one of your, ah, trips, ah, you know-

[45:31-45:31] ULISSES: Yeah.

[45:31-45:37] HOST(Demian): ... we recommend it. Anybody in Miami, we're probably gonna put together a group to go. How, how many go, ah?

[45:38-45:40] ULISSES: So we usually cap 12.

[45:40-45:41] HOST(Demian): 12, okay.

[45:41-45:58] ULISSES: Yeah, 'cause it's, it's easier to control everybody, um, to keep the group together, right, to ride together, um, but, yeah, ah, I think 12 is usually a good number. Sometimes we do more, but then we add other coaches, um, yeah.

[45:59-46:01] HOST(Demian): Great. So what, ah, some tips, some, ah, you know?

[46:02-47:10] ULISSES: Yeah, I l- I think, I like to think that, um, you know, like, ah, recovery is not, ah, something luxurious, right, that you're, "Okay, oh, well, he will recover now." No, it's something that it should be part of your life, um, and to build a routine, ah, that includes recovery for sure. I think that's my main, ah, my main advice, ah, my main advice. Of course, like, stress with, with, ah, intention, ah, that is your, ah, workout of the day, right? It helps, um, eat, ah, clean but plenty, um, and I... Like, of course, if you don't have any, if you, if you don't have any, ah, nutritional issues, like, eat all macronutrients, um, every meal, right? And, yeah, ah, breathe, and it will all lead to a better sleep that's th- th- the last, but not the less important thing.

[47:11-47:13] HOST(Demian): Yep. Well, Ulisses, thank you so much.

[47:14-47:14] ULISSES: Thank you.

[47:14-47:27] HOST(Demian): So we, um, as we said, we always want to leave something behind for, for our listeners, so, um, let's think of what we could leave, ah, you know, ah, as part of our show notes here. Ah, definitely this presentation, if you don't mind-

[47:27-47:28] ULISSES: Mm-hmm. Sure.

[47:28-47:37] HOST(Demian): ... we could leave it, um, and maybe some, you know, we could hack something up that, ah, could help people, ah, implement this in their, in their daily life, ah, so thank you so much.

[47:37-47:37] ULISSES: Thank you.

[47:37-47:37] HOST(Demian): It's an honor-

[47:38-47:38] ULISSES: Pleasure to be here.

[47:38-47:40] HOST(Demian): ... to be with you and, ah, let's go to, ah, Girona in September.

[47:40-47:42] ULISSES: Let's do it. Let's do it.

[47:42-47:47] HOST(Demian): So thank you so much for listening to us and, ah, we'll see you in the next episode.